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Post by chiyankee on Feb 7, 2024 22:59:51 GMT -5
Here's one reason the Yankees might be better in 2024.
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Post by kaybli on Feb 7, 2024 23:06:37 GMT -5
Here's one reason the Yankees might be better in 2024. For sure! How would you bat them? Soto prefers hitting 3rd and Judge is comfortable hitting 2nd, but it would seem to make more sense to have the higher OBP player (Soto) hit second and the guy with more power (Judge) hit third. |
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Post by rizzuto on Feb 7, 2024 23:14:41 GMT -5
Judge second, Soto third. I like Judge seeing fastballs ahead in the count. Now, you may see two guys with .400 + OBP back to back.
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Post by chiyankee on Feb 7, 2024 23:19:32 GMT -5
Here's one reason the Yankees might be better in 2024. For sure! How would you bat them? Soto prefers hitting 3rd and Judge is comfortable hitting 2nd, but it would seem to make more sense to have the higher OBP player (Soto) hit second and the guy with more power (Judge) hit third. I like the left hander hitting second, so when the leadoff batter gets on, there's a big hole in the right side of the infield for him to pull a ball through, but that's not that important. Just hit them where they are comfortable. |
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Post by inger on Feb 7, 2024 23:36:06 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Torres is more or less in the bottom third of all defensive metrics posted on Fangraphs' Advanced Defensive Metrics for 2nd basemen with at least 600 innings played at the position in 2023:
16th out of 24 in BIS' Defensive Runs Saved at -4
17th out of 24 in Ultimate Zone Rating Runs Saved per 150 games at -2.1
16th out of 24 in Outs Above Average at -3
16th out of 24 in Runs Above Average at -3
Overall Fangraphs' Defensive rating was 16th out of 24 at -2.5 runs.
So in 2023, the defensive metrics all say Torres was below average. Not brutal, just sub-par across the board.
For 2022 and 2023 combined the picture is somewhat different. There are 28 MLB 2nd baseman who played at least 1000 innings at 2nd base. Of those 28, Torres is:
8th in BIS Defensive Runs Saved at +5
11th in Ultimate Zone Rating Runs Saved per 150 games at +1.1
18th in Outs Above Average at -3
18th in Runs Above Average at -2
21st in Fangraphs overall Defensive Rating at 2nd base at -2.5 runs.
These numbers tend toward the idea that Torres was a more or less average defender at 2nd base for 2022-2023 combined. But it’s also been an open joke among those on this forum that watch 140 or more games each year that he’s made of Teflon and doesn’t get charged with multiple errors that he winds up often getting some one else charged with. While it’s a joke, like many jokes it has at least a grain of truth. As to the variance between 2022 and 2023, I actually remarked during the games this year that he was finally getting charged with those errors sometimes in 2023. There is also no category for mental lapses, the ball that doesn’t get thrown, the times thrown to first where the out was available at second, etc… |
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Post by inger on Feb 7, 2024 23:38:34 GMT -5
One thing to realize about defensive metrics is that because of injuries and occasionally lack of performance there are seldom any more than maybe 20 qualified players at each position to be ranked. Top ten is not necessarily an honor. How many were ranked? Is he top 10/28, or is he 10/15?… And then add the mental errors he too often makes that he doesn’t get charged with an error… Or maybe there arent that many players that are offensively and defensively capable of playing everyday against LHP/RHP ... I mean 20 of 30 2nd basemen dont get injured every year I’m with you on that, which is why I Aldo mentioned lack of performance in my post. You do raise a good point that availability to play on a daily basis is a positive… |
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Post by ypaterson on Feb 8, 2024 12:02:08 GMT -5
All true. But they could score 1000 runs. No lead is going to be safe...regardless of which team has it. The 3 + hour game will be back in New York in 2024. I try to be optimistic, but I don't see this as a 1000-run offense, or even a 950+ run offense. Soto and Judge are elite get them off to a great start, and Verdugo and Torres are above-average hitters, but unless Rizzo, Volpe, Lemahieu and Wells take big steps up from last season, I don't see how the additions of Soto and Verdugo turn a team that scored less than 700 runs into a team capable of scoring much over 850 runs. 850 runs would put the Yankees at or near the top of the MLB in runs scored. My "1000 run" comments are more metaphor than prophecy. I do think this team will be an offensive leviathan. Too bad the defense and pitching won't approach the same levels. |
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Post by qimqam on Feb 8, 2024 12:54:33 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Torres is more or less in the bottom third of all defensive metrics posted on Fangraphs' Advanced Defensive Metrics for 2nd basemen with at least 600 innings played at the position in 2023:
16th out of 24 in BIS' Defensive Runs Saved at -4
17th out of 24 in Ultimate Zone Rating Runs Saved per 150 games at -2.1
16th out of 24 in Outs Above Average at -3
16th out of 24 in Runs Above Average at -3
Overall Fangraphs' Defensive rating was 16th out of 24 at -2.5 runs.
So in 2023, the defensive metrics all say Torres was below average. Not brutal, just sub-par across the board.
For 2022 and 2023 combined the picture is somewhat different. There are 28 MLB 2nd baseman who played at least 1000 innings at 2nd base. Of those 28, Torres is:
8th in BIS Defensive Runs Saved at +5
11th in Ultimate Zone Rating Runs Saved per 150 games at +1.1
18th in Outs Above Average at -3
18th in Runs Above Average at -2
21st in Fangraphs overall Defensive Rating at 2nd base at -2.5 runs.
These numbers tend toward the idea that Torres was a more or less average defender at 2nd base for 2022-2023 combined. So guys that have played about 1/3 of a season at 2nd base ?? How about guys that are everyday starting 2nd baseman ??? Conservatively 1000-1200 innings per season |
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Post by qimqam on Feb 8, 2024 13:14:30 GMT -5
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Post by bumper on Feb 10, 2024 8:21:56 GMT -5
Here's one reason the Yankees might be better in 2024. For sure! How would you bat them? Soto prefers hitting 3rd and Judge is comfortable hitting 2nd, but it would seem to make more sense to have the higher OBP player (Soto) hit second and the guy with more power (Judge) hit third. on the MKS the other day, boone was optimistic that DJ would return to being the old DJ (or at least the 2nd half DJ) and if so, bats leadoff. with them wanting to alternate L/R as much as they can, then soto 2nd and judge 3rd is the call w rizzo 4 and stanton 5 or torres 5. with soto's OBP it makes a lot of sense having judge behind him.
on the other hand, you can make the case for judge 2nd and soto 3rd. both are more comfortable or least more used to batting in those positions and i like the idea of soto protecting judge. think judge would benefit more from protection than soto. soto doesn't really need much protection since he's an on-base machine w a low K rate. should be fun either way. |
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Post by bumper on Feb 10, 2024 10:57:47 GMT -5
Yankees outfield combined for a 1.1 WAR in 2023 - Worst in the MLB ... THey are projected to be #1 in 2024 with a 14 WAR projection Cortes, Rodón and Trevino – combined for 1.6 WAR in 2023. In 2022, they were worth 11 WAR. In 2024, they’re projected for 7.1 WAR. agree w the topic's premise. just the OF improvements alone make them a significantly better team. soto & judge back-to-back in the lineup. not sure stroman is the answer (would have liked more) but IF (and i know you can't rely on "ifs") rodon and cortes who had disastrous seasons pitch closer to expectations, the SP will be much improved.
while i understand you are what your final record says you are. this team was not an 82-80 team. when judge & rizzo got hurt, the team was 36-25 - a 95 win pace. not saying we could have continued on that pace, but when you lose your 2 best players including arguably the best player in baseball and 4 out of your 6 projected starters and had a number of injuries the results are not gonna be pretty. so yeah 82-80.
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Post by ypaterson on Feb 10, 2024 10:58:26 GMT -5
The only thing I know about batting orders is that some hitters take it very seriously. Boone would be smart to take all the data from the experts and put it under his seat cushion. After that he should ask Judge, Soto, Rizzo, Stanton and Torres where they want to hit and set up his batting order to meet their comfort level.
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Post by cookback on Feb 10, 2024 11:58:25 GMT -5
From the Athletic... Seems they like Cashman's moves more than several people on this thread...
Have the Yankees done enough to improve?
The Yankees did not accomplish all of their goals this winter. They hoped for a “YamaSoto” offseason but only added Juan Soto, losing out to the Dodgers on Yoshinobu Yamamoto. That’s still a significant upgrade from relying on Jake Bauers, Willie Calhoun, Franchy Cordero and Billy McKinney in the outfield. That move cannot and should not be understated. They also added Alex Verdugo and Trent Grisham, who give them better all-around depth.
While missing out on Yamamoto was a disappointment, adding Marcus Stroman to the middle of the rotation on a reasonable two-year contract was a shrewd move. Adding Caleb Ferguson to the bullpen this week was also a sign of good roster management; general manager Brian Cashman flipped a waiver-wire pickup and Dominican Summer League pitcher for someone projected to be better than Wandy Peralta.
No team in the American League improved more this offseason than the Yankees, and the stats back it up. But as we’ve seen over the past several years, that doesn’t mean much until the games start. — Chris Kirschner
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Post by qimqam on Feb 10, 2024 13:04:51 GMT -5
From the Athletic... Seems they like Cashman's moves more than several people on this thread... Have the Yankees done enough to improve? The Yankees did not accomplish all of their goals this winter. They hoped for a “YamaSoto” offseason but only added Juan Soto, losing out to the Dodgers on Yoshinobu Yamamoto. That’s still a significant upgrade from relying on Jake Bauers, Willie Calhoun, Franchy Cordero and Billy McKinney in the outfield. That move cannot and should not be understated. They also added Alex Verdugo and Trent Grisham, who give them better all-around depth. While missing out on Yamamoto was a disappointment, adding Marcus Stroman to the middle of the rotation on a reasonable two-year contract was a shrewd move. Adding Caleb Ferguson to the bullpen this week was also a sign of good roster management; general manager Brian Cashman flipped a waiver-wire pickup and Dominican Summer League pitcher for someone projected to be better than Wandy Peralta. No team in the American League improved more this offseason than the Yankees, and the stats back it up. But as we’ve seen over the past several years, that doesn’t mean much until the games start. — Chris Kirschner Yankees did what they could while dealing with payroll issues (Thank You Stanton) and without completely mortgaging their future. Despite that ... the Orioles are the team to beat for the forseeable future Super young team coming off 101 Wins, added a former Cy young, and they they have 5 of the top 32 MLB propspects knocking on the door |
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Post by posadafan24 on Feb 10, 2024 13:59:10 GMT -5
From the Athletic... Seems they like Cashman's moves more than several people on this thread... Have the Yankees done enough to improve? The Yankees did not accomplish all of their goals this winter. They hoped for a “YamaSoto” offseason but only added Juan Soto, losing out to the Dodgers on Yoshinobu Yamamoto. That’s still a significant upgrade from relying on Jake Bauers, Willie Calhoun, Franchy Cordero and Billy McKinney in the outfield. That move cannot and should not be understated. They also added Alex Verdugo and Trent Grisham, who give them better all-around depth. While missing out on Yamamoto was a disappointment, adding Marcus Stroman to the middle of the rotation on a reasonable two-year contract was a shrewd move. Adding Caleb Ferguson to the bullpen this week was also a sign of good roster management; general manager Brian Cashman flipped a waiver-wire pickup and Dominican Summer League pitcher for someone projected to be better than Wandy Peralta. No team in the American League improved more this offseason than the Yankees, and the stats back it up. But as we’ve seen over the past several years, that doesn’t mean much until the games start. — Chris Kirschner Yankees did what they could while dealing with payroll issues (Thank You Stanton) and without completely mortgaging their future. Despite that ... the Orioles are the team to beat for the forseeable future Super young team coming off 101 Wins, added a former Cy young, and they they have 5 of the top 32 MLB propspects knocking on the door Mortgaging their future ? Thats all they have been doing by waiting for prospect after prospect over the last ten years . Up to this point they have been wasting year after year of prime cole and judge. For what? Guys like andujar , florial , frazier , chance adams, schmidt , king , garcia , peraza , cabrera . And what have they gotten from waiting for all those guys? Nothing , or nothing yet . But yeah lets waste whatever prime years cole and judge have left for jones , who had been in the minors for 2 years and an unproven pitcher . |
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