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Post by utahyank on Aug 1, 2019 9:06:39 GMT -5
Well said about the examples of dominant pitching losing in a short series...
I have the benefit of more years watching this great game.....I know many of you like to look at numbers and statistics....check this pitching rotation out....1954 Cleveland Indians...
1. Bob Feller
2. Early Wynn
3. Bob Lemon
4. Mike Garcia
Those four were very, very, good, and they did not win a single game in the World Series....so yeah....it's not over until it's over...
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Post by noetsi on Aug 1, 2019 9:14:03 GMT -5
The problem is one can always find rare events to prove most points. The question more reasonably would be how often has a team with a pitching staff as weak as the Yankees have now won a WS. My guess is very rarely. It is likelihood not extreme cases that is the best predictor imho.
This pitching staff has not even been good in recent weeks. Our starters include Paxton (one disappointing start after another) Happ (nuf said), Tanaka (erratic at best)...these are the guys who are going to win a WS.
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Post by utahyank on Aug 1, 2019 9:24:24 GMT -5
The problem is one can always find rare events to prove most points. The question more reasonably would be how often has a team with a pitching staff as weak as the Yankees have now won a WS. My guess is very rarely. It is likelihood not extreme cases that is the best predictor imho. This pitching staff has not even been good in recent weeks. Our starters include Paxton (one disappointing start after another) Happ (nuf said), Tanaka (erratic at best)...these are the guys who are going to win a WS. Russ..Russ...you are spinning the discussion on it's head again.... 1. Dominant pitching can, and reasonably often is, beaten in a short series......that is the discussion... You want to flip the argument into..... 2. What is the weakest pitching to ever win a World Series.... completely different question, and I have no idea... |
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Post by greatfatness on Aug 1, 2019 9:38:56 GMT -5
. This pitching staff has not even been good in recent weeks. . Good thing the playoffs didn’t happen in recent weeks. |
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Post by inger on Aug 1, 2019 10:02:09 GMT -5
Frazier seemed happy he wasn't being traded:
Clint’s agent might want to suggest he think about some coaching on PR and brand. Dignity apparently does not come naturally to Clint. “I’m a real boy”!... |
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Post by geo on Aug 1, 2019 10:24:35 GMT -5
Clint has personality issues. He'll either adjust or be on another roster. We are now 6 to 1 to win the WS.
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 1, 2019 10:37:25 GMT -5
Clint has personality issues. He'll either adjust or be on another roster. We are now 6 to 1 to win the WS. Is the 1 Noetsi.... |
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Post by pippsheadache on Aug 1, 2019 10:43:50 GMT -5
Well said about the examples of dominant pitching losing in a short series... I have the benefit of more years watching this great game.....I know many of you like to look at numbers and statistics....check this pitching rotation out....1954 Cleveland Indians... 1. Bob Feller 2. Early Wynn 3. Bob Lemon 4. Mike Garcia Those four were very, very, good, and they did not win a single game in the World Series....so yeah....it's not over until it's over... A great staff. Three HOFers and the excellent Mike Garcia. They also had good work from Art Houtemann, who I know you remember. In addition, an end-of-the line Hal Newhouser, along with Don Mossi and Ray Narleski, gave good work from the pen. |
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 1, 2019 10:49:17 GMT -5
Well said about the examples of dominant pitching losing in a short series... I have the benefit of more years watching this great game.....I know many of you like to look at numbers and statistics....check this pitching rotation out....1954 Cleveland Indians... 1. Bob Feller 2. Early Wynn 3. Bob Lemon 4. Mike Garcia Those four were very, very, good, and they did not win a single game in the World Series....so yeah....it's not over until it's over... A great staff. Three HOFers and the excellent Mike Garcia. They also had good work from Art Houtemann, who I know you remember. In addition, an end-of-the line Hal Newhouser, along with Don Mossi and Ray Narleski, gave good work from the pen. That is a hell of a pitching staff! With only 16 teams, not many Sergio Meat-Trays around. |
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Post by pippsheadache on Aug 1, 2019 10:51:23 GMT -5
The problem is one can always find rare events to prove most points. The question more reasonably would be how often has a team with a pitching staff as weak as the Yankees have now won a WS. My guess is very rarely. It is likelihood not extreme cases that is the best predictor imho. This pitching staff has not even been good in recent weeks. Our starters include Paxton (one disappointing start after another) Happ (nuf said), Tanaka (erratic at best)...these are the guys who are going to win a WS. The 2015 Kansas City Royals took the crown with starters like Edinson Volquez, Yovani Ventura, Jeremy Guthrie, Danny Duffy and Johnny Cueto. Not exactly a Hall of Fame staff. They relied heavily on their bullpen. Just like the Yankees. Plus they beat a pitching rich Mets team that featured deGrom and Syndergaard and Matt Harvey when he was still The Dark Night. There have been plenty of teams with modest starting pitching who have won titles. Not saying these Yankees will do it, but certainly it has happened. I've seen it too many times. |
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Post by greatfatness on Aug 1, 2019 13:15:10 GMT -5
Cardinals ran into the same market dynamics that the Yankees did. www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/cardinals-ship-gyorko-to-dodgers-for-injured-lefty-cingrani-as/article_559fff1a-6044-5cb3-a563-0aae7b789585.html The Cardinals explored multiple deals for a starting pitcher, ranging from short-term additions to pitchers with years remaining on their contracts. They approached the Mets about Zack Wheeler, and the asking price was a major-league ready or everyday outfielder. The Cardinals balked at the cost of Tyler O'Neill or Harrison Bader. The Cardinals also engaged with the Diamondbacks on Robbie Ray, and Arizona's asking price for the lefty was steep. They wanted at least two of the Cardinals' top prospects. The Cardinals encountered a similar block with Texas on Mike Minor. Neither of those players were moved before the deadline. The Cardinals attempted to talk teams off of Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman, but in most cases were unsuccessful. “When you spend seven straight days in a room working on something, you tend to want to see something come out of it," president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said. "So, there’s a high level of frustration, even for us. But we answer to people and have to be responsible for decisions that come out of it and we just didn’t feel we could get there.” The were not involved in a pursuit of Arizona ace Zack Greinke, who was traded to Houston. Greinke had the Cardinals on his no-trade list, and there was no sense he would waive that. |
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Post by rizzuto on Aug 1, 2019 14:12:24 GMT -5
Cardinals ran into the same market dynamics that the Yankees did. www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/cardinals-ship-gyorko-to-dodgers-for-injured-lefty-cingrani-as/article_559fff1a-6044-5cb3-a563-0aae7b789585.html The Cardinals explored multiple deals for a starting pitcher, ranging from short-term additions to pitchers with years remaining on their contracts. They approached the Mets about Zack Wheeler, and the asking price was a major-league ready or everyday outfielder. The Cardinals balked at the cost of Tyler O'Neill or Harrison Bader. The Cardinals also engaged with the Diamondbacks on Robbie Ray, and Arizona's asking price for the lefty was steep. They wanted at least two of the Cardinals' top prospects. The Cardinals encountered a similar block with Texas on Mike Minor. Neither of those players were moved before the deadline. The Cardinals attempted to talk teams off of Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman, but in most cases were unsuccessful. “When you spend seven straight days in a room working on something, you tend to want to see something come out of it," president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said. "So, there’s a high level of frustration, even for us. But we answer to people and have to be responsible for decisions that come out of it and we just didn’t feel we could get there.” The were not involved in a pursuit of Arizona ace Zack Greinke, who was traded to Houston. Greinke had the Cardinals on his no-trade list, and there was no sense he would waive that. They will end up losing Wheeler for nothing. Another wonderful decision by the Mets. |
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Post by chiyankee on Aug 1, 2019 14:14:08 GMT -5
Cardinals ran into the same market dynamics that the Yankees did. www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/cardinals-ship-gyorko-to-dodgers-for-injured-lefty-cingrani-as/article_559fff1a-6044-5cb3-a563-0aae7b789585.html The Cardinals explored multiple deals for a starting pitcher, ranging from short-term additions to pitchers with years remaining on their contracts. They approached the Mets about Zack Wheeler, and the asking price was a major-league ready or everyday outfielder. The Cardinals balked at the cost of Tyler O'Neill or Harrison Bader. The Cardinals also engaged with the Diamondbacks on Robbie Ray, and Arizona's asking price for the lefty was steep. They wanted at least two of the Cardinals' top prospects. The Cardinals encountered a similar block with Texas on Mike Minor. Neither of those players were moved before the deadline. The Cardinals attempted to talk teams off of Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman, but in most cases were unsuccessful. “When you spend seven straight days in a room working on something, you tend to want to see something come out of it," president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said. "So, there’s a high level of frustration, even for us. But we answer to people and have to be responsible for decisions that come out of it and we just didn’t feel we could get there.” The were not involved in a pursuit of Arizona ace Zack Greinke, who was traded to Houston. Greinke had the Cardinals on his no-trade list, and there was no sense he would waive that. Yeah, just insert "Yankees" for "Cardinals" and you could write the same article about the Bombers. |
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Post by greatfatness on Aug 1, 2019 14:26:35 GMT -5
Cardinals ran into the same market dynamics that the Yankees did. www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/cardinals-ship-gyorko-to-dodgers-for-injured-lefty-cingrani-as/article_559fff1a-6044-5cb3-a563-0aae7b789585.html The Cardinals explored multiple deals for a starting pitcher, ranging from short-term additions to pitchers with years remaining on their contracts. They approached the Mets about Zack Wheeler, and the asking price was a major-league ready or everyday outfielder. The Cardinals balked at the cost of Tyler O'Neill or Harrison Bader. The Cardinals also engaged with the Diamondbacks on Robbie Ray, and Arizona's asking price for the lefty was steep. They wanted at least two of the Cardinals' top prospects. The Cardinals encountered a similar block with Texas on Mike Minor. Neither of those players were moved before the deadline. The Cardinals attempted to talk teams off of Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman, but in most cases were unsuccessful. “When you spend seven straight days in a room working on something, you tend to want to see something come out of it," president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said. "So, there’s a high level of frustration, even for us. But we answer to people and have to be responsible for decisions that come out of it and we just didn’t feel we could get there.” The were not involved in a pursuit of Arizona ace Zack Greinke, who was traded to Houston. Greinke had the Cardinals on his no-trade list, and there was no sense he would waive that. They will end up losing Wheeler for nothing. Another wonderful decision by the Mets. They’ll get a draft pick maybe. And then BVW can decide what to do with it when by all accounts he doesn’t trust his scouts. That should be fun. |
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Post by utahyank on Aug 1, 2019 14:27:49 GMT -5
A great staff. Three HOFers and the excellent Mike Garcia. They also had good work from Art Houtemann, who I know you remember. In addition, an end-of-the line Hal Newhouser, along with Don Mossi and Ray Narleski, gave good work from the pen. That is a hell of a pitching staff! With only 16 teams, not many Sergio Meat-Trays around. thanks, guys...we were astounded at the time, because those pitchers were just so darned good.... I have a candidate for a weak pitching staff that won the WS....but it is mostly for conversation...I don't know what the numbers might show if all teams were evaluated.... The 1942 St. Louis Browns didn't have much....Elden Auker was probably the best, but he didn't have an especially good year as I recall....then maybe Denny Galehouse, who came up big in the WS...and they got to the WS by a good year from Johnny Niggling...(I may have spelled Johnny's name wrong)...anyway, they seemed to not have much but it turned out to be enough....all fwiw.... |
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