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Post by cocopugg on Sept 20, 2024 1:13:11 GMT -5
Just curious what you guys think...If Ohtani was still in the AL...and let's assume for the sake of argument, he was still with the Angels, and the Angels were having the same season the Dodgers are having...about to win a division championship...the question is: Would Ohtani's numbers be enough to beat Aaron Judge's numbers this season? I say this because I know how the MVP voters have always had their prejudices when it comes to voting for a full time designated hitter. What do you think?
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Post by kaybli on Sept 20, 2024 1:19:07 GMT -5
Just curious what you guys think...If Ohtani was still in the AL...and let's assume for the sake of argument, he was still with the Angels, and the Angels were having the same season the Dodgers are having...about to win a division championship...the question is: Would Ohtani's numbers be enough to beat Aaron Judge's numbers this season? I say this because I know how the MVP voters have always had their prejudices when it comes to voting for a full time designated hitter. What do you think? Voters love Ohtani so I think he would beat Judge being the first 50/50 player. |
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Post by ill636 on Sept 20, 2024 7:23:56 GMT -5
Just curious what you guys think...If Ohtani was still in the AL...and let's assume for the sake of argument, he was still with the Angels, and the Angels were having the same season the Dodgers are having...about to win a division championship...the question is: Would Ohtani's numbers be enough to beat Aaron Judge's numbers this season? I say this because I know how the MVP voters have always had their prejudices when it comes to voting for a full time designated hitter. What do you think? Voters love Ohtani so I think he would beat Judge being the first 50/50 player. Absolutely agree |
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Post by bumper on Sept 20, 2024 7:38:02 GMT -5
not sure how important WAR is, but according to the current numbers on baseball reference, judge has a substantial lead 9.9 to 7.8. in fact, witt, henderson and duran are ahead of shohei and he's essentially tied w soto for 5th. pretty sure defense is a component of that so yeah being a DH is part of that.
judge also leads in the WPA categories.
from my perspective, think ohtani has a lot more help on the dodgers w guys like betts, freeman and hernandez. judge has soto, maybe stanton (and now chisholm). the impact of where the yankees would be without judge is greater than the dodgers without ohtani.
certainly ohtani is a freak of nature especially when you factor in the 50 steals, but this season, despite voter prejudices (if they exist), judge wins. his value to the team is greater. if ohtani was pitching, then he wins. not even close.
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Post by chiyankee on Sept 20, 2024 8:26:16 GMT -5
I think with the fat bases and rule changes, stolen bases have become overrated. Heck, Judge is 10 for 10 this season stealing bases.
One should also consider that Judge moved to CF this year so Soto could play RF, thus improving the Yankees overall team significantly.
Defensive innings played:
Judge 949
Ohtani 0
Put Outs:
Judge 249
Ohtani 0
Assists:
Judge 4
Ohtani 0
Errors:
Judge 0
Ohtani 0 (Hey they're tied here)
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Post by bomberhojoe on Sept 20, 2024 9:31:36 GMT -5
Would he? Perhaps
Should he? Absolutely NOT!!
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Post by cocopugg on Sept 20, 2024 12:46:16 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, for making this an interesting thread indeed! As for me...what can I say? I'm a lifelong Yankees fan, and I love Aaron Judge, but I can't ignore Ohtani's numbers this season...and I'm fully aware that Judge actually has to "EARN" his MVP (by playing CF most of the time, while Ohtani warms up the bench). All that being said, I can't ignore Judge's WAR numbers, or his OBA...I would still give the MVP to Judge over Ohtani...I'm sure that would get me stoned by Ohtani fans. When I created this thread, I said, let's pretend Ohtani was still with the Angels....but I now say...let's pretend the Yankees were in the NL...which player do you think has had a bigger impact for his team this season? Judge or Ohtani? The Dodgers were without Mookie Betts for most of the season, and while Ohtani did pick up the slack, it was still the Dodger pitching that mostly got the job done for them, but where would the Yankees be without Aaron Judge this year? Would Juan Soto alone be enough to have kept the team in first place? Think about that...and the answer should tell us which of these two incredible behemoths of the game of baseball, should be the overall MLB MVP for 2024.
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Post by chiyankee on Sept 20, 2024 13:10:06 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, for making this an interesting thread indeed! As for me...what can I say? I'm a lifelong Yankees fan, and I love Aaron Judge, but I can't ignore Ohtani's numbers this season...and I'm fully aware that Judge actually has to "EARN" his MVP (by playing CF most of the time, while Ohtani warms up the bench). All that being said, I can't ignore Judge's WAR numbers, or his OBA...I would still give the MVP to Judge over Ohtani...I'm sure that would get me stoned by Ohtani fans. When I created this thread, I said, let's pretend Ohtani was still with the Angels....but I now say...let's pretend the Yankees were in the NL...which player do you think has had a bigger impact for his team this season? Judge or Ohtani? The Dodgers were without Mookie Betts for most of the season, and while Ohtani did pick up the slack, it was still the Dodger pitching that mostly got the job done for them, but where would the Yankees be without Aaron Judge this year? Would Juan Soto alone be enough to have kept the team in first place? Think about that...and the answer should tell us which of these two incredible behemoths of the game of baseball, should be the overall MLB MVP for 2024. MLB is lucky to have them both doing what they're doing simultaneously, but I'm not sure the owners and the clown, Manfred, who works for them realizes it. |
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Post by ypaterson on Sept 20, 2024 13:27:16 GMT -5
Would Ohtani be stealing 50 bases if he played center field 1200 innings this season ? So what was the best defensive play he made this year ? Any great throws from the outfield ?
Designated hitter is half a position in a linuep. I tend to assess it that way. Though I am not one of those guys who longs for the day when pitchers hit...I am one of those guys who recognizes that the DH allows a lot of flawed players great careers. I admit that I get annoyed when folks talk about Ohtaini being among the great players in history. You cannot measure him against the immortals who played both full innings.
If Ohtani pitched 130 innings this year I'd say "Stop the season and walk him to Cooperstown !" But as a full time DH, I'll argue that he only gets halfway there. Maybe Nebraska.
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Post by cocopugg on Sept 20, 2024 13:34:31 GMT -5
Would Ohtani be stealing 50 bases if he played center field 1200 innings this season ? So what was the best defensive play he made this year ? Any great throws from the outfield ? Designated hitter is half a position in a linuep. I tend to assess it that way. Though I am not one of those guys who longs for the day when pitchers hit...I am one of those guys who recognizes that the DH allows a lot of flawed players great careers. I admit that I get annoyed when folks talk about Ohtaini being among the great players in history. You cannot measure him against the immortals who played both full innings. If Ohtani pitched 130 innings this year I'd say "Stop the season and walk him to Cooperstown !" But as a full time DH, I'll argue that the only gets halfway there. Maybe Nebraska. Excellent observation! |
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Post by donniebaseball23 on Sept 20, 2024 13:37:44 GMT -5
50/50 season? In LA? Yeah, he'd win. If Judge hit 60+ HR, he might have a chance.
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Post by Max on Sept 20, 2024 13:39:11 GMT -5
In my opinion, Judge should win. Judge has a higher batting average, a higher OBP, higher HRs, higher OPS, higher RBIs.
Besides, Judge plays the field, Ohtani doesn't. Playing the field rather than sitting on the bench makes a big difference during 162 games season, especially when many of those games are played in hot weather.
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Post by anthonyd46 on Sept 20, 2024 13:42:30 GMT -5
I think judge still wins he's leading every category almost. Stolen bases are meh too since the bases are bigger now.
Also the biggest factor the angels are a terrible team, in the AL, and I think it's helping otnani to be around multiple better players and not just trout so this prob doesn't happen with the angels.
Plus we've seen the Yankees without judge it's a different team. The angels sucked with or without ohtani.
He also doesn't play the field.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Max on Sept 20, 2024 13:47:22 GMT -5
"Hell, if I'd known 40–40 was going to be a big deal, I'd have done it every year!" ~ Mickey Mantle
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Post by Max on Sept 20, 2024 13:49:39 GMT -5
I think with the fat bases and rule changes, stolen bases have become overrated. Heck, Judge is 10 for 10 this season stealing bases. Totally agree. |
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