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Post by pippsheadache on Jun 16, 2021 15:07:51 GMT -5
I think you've nailed it with the staff, Rizz. The Cardinals really have some bullpen heavyweights as well.
I assume for the sake of getting as many great players as possible on the team we're doing a DH for everybody?
I'm wondering about Lou Brock. He's such an iconic player that it seems ridiculous that he wouldn't be on the team, and I'm supposing he will be.
But if you were actually building a team rather than a collection of great players, he might be a risky pick. There are better DHs available for certain, and he was not a good defensive OFer.
Still, he's too important of a player to leave off. And these are 26-man rosters, correct? And if Ducky has to be removed from left because the fans in Detroit are throwing rotten fruit at him, who better to bring in than Lou Brock?
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Post by inger on Jun 16, 2021 15:36:16 GMT -5
I think you've nailed it with the staff, Rizz. The Cardinals really have some bullpen heavyweights as well. I assume for the sake of getting as many great players as possible on the team we're doing a DH for everybody? I'm wondering about Lou Brock. He's such an iconic player that it seems ridiculous that he wouldn't be on the team, and I'm supposing he will be. But if you were actually building a team rather than a collection of great players, he might be a risky pick. There are better DHs available for certain, and he was not a good defensive OFer. Still, he's too important of a player to leave off. And these are 26-man rosters, correct? And if Ducky has to be removed from left because the fans in Detroit are throwing rotten fruit at him, who better to bring in than Lou Brock? Brock has to be there, at least to pinch run. Surely not for late-inning defense. Why are there no “early inning defensive specialists”? … Or mid-inning. Early-middle inning defensive specialist? Evening defensive specialists to play under the lights? Or maybe a sun field specialist that could see only shadows?… |
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Post by kaybli on Jun 16, 2021 15:43:11 GMT -5
I wish I had the baseball history knowledge to participate in these discussions (I only started following in 1995) but I'm learning a lot!
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Post by pippsheadache on Jun 16, 2021 15:45:14 GMT -5
I wish I had the baseball history knowledge to participate in these discussions (I only started following in 1995) but I'm learning a lot! Thanks Kaybli. Actually we just make this stuff up.😎 |
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Post by kaybli on Jun 16, 2021 15:49:52 GMT -5
I wish I had the baseball history knowledge to participate in these discussions (I only started following in 1995) but I'm learning a lot! Thanks Kaybli. Actually we just make this stuff up.😎  |
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Post by BillyBones on Jun 16, 2021 15:56:41 GMT -5
Wanted to chime in on these most interesting posts. I had to review whether lefty Dickie Kerr joined the 3 game WS winners group. He did not. But, won the 2 games he started in 1919, despite teammates not trying hard. Dickie had a fellow pitcher with an interesting name and a high ERA named Shovel Hodge. Poor Dickie was only the number three starter, behind Eddie Cicotte and Lefty Williams, both of whom were in on the fix. Cicotte was one of the more shameless fixers, and he did his job well in game one, getting blasted by the Reds in what was a best of nine series. But when the gamblers showed signs of reneging on the payouts, Cicotte pitched well in his final two starts and actually won his last one. Williams was more compliant, getting wracked for an ERA of well over six in his three starts, each of which resulted in a White Sox loss. Kerr, as you know, pitched brilliantly in his two starts. He is far better-known than he would otherwise be because of his honest effort. Christy Mathewson was covering (actually a ghostwriter wrote the stories) the game for one of the newspapers and knew almost from the start of game one that something was fishy. It was discussed rather openly in some circles even as it was going on. Thanks for the additional information. Dickie was listed at 155 lbs. Wow. w |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 16, 2021 17:08:19 GMT -5
Glad to see that you’ve left Hrabosky out of the bullpen. Other than 73-75 he was just a foolish-looking man stomping around on the mound while providing an average-at-best performance… Even as a kid, I thought the same thing. He was more spectacle after 1975, and as John Wooden used to say, “do not mistake activity for achievement.” |
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Post by inger on Jun 16, 2021 17:08:42 GMT -5
I wish I had the baseball history knowledge to participate in these discussions (I only started following in 1995) but I'm learning a lot! We only know what we know. For players before our time, we have to rely on written accounts, record books, and folklore… Then we have imagine the eras meshing. Pitchers and hitters that never faced a black opponent vs. those who did. Juiced baseballs vs. the dead ball. In the end, it’s never going to be right or wrong. Just fun… |
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Post by inger on Jun 16, 2021 17:12:10 GMT -5
You might want to keep Larry Jaster in AAA just to spot start against the All-Time Dodgers… 🤓 Great recall, Inger. Hard to believe that the rather ordinary Jaster pitched five shutouts in 1966 against the NL pennant-winning Dodgers. A feat reserved only for a pitching dominant era… |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 16, 2021 17:19:30 GMT -5
I think you've nailed it with the staff, Rizz. The Cardinals really have some bullpen heavyweights as well. I assume for the sake of getting as many great players as possible on the team we're doing a DH for everybody? I'm wondering about Lou Brock. He's such an iconic player that it seems ridiculous that he wouldn't be on the team, and I'm supposing he will be. But if you were actually building a team rather than a collection of great players, he might be a risky pick. There are better DHs available for certain, and he was not a good defensive OFer. Still, he's too important of a player to leave off. And these are 26-man rosters, correct? And if Ducky has to be removed from left because the fans in Detroit are throwing rotten fruit at him, who better to bring in than Lou Brock? Definitely have to utilize the DH if these NL teams are going to compete in the Fall Classic with the legendary AL teams. I have been assigning 26 players, with no definitive number of pitchers and position players. I would hesitate to go below a staff of ten pitchers, though that was not uncommon at one time. At first blush, I would think it almost heresy to omit Brock from an all time Cardinals team, but I understand the reasoning. While not a virtual certainty, I doubt he would make the starting nine. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 16, 2021 17:31:05 GMT -5
I wish I had the baseball history knowledge to participate in these discussions (I only started following in 1995) but I'm learning a lot! Most of my knowledge (not that I am knowledgeable) before my time - say prior to 1975 - comes from conversations with older baseball fans, reading baseball literature, and poring over MLB career statistics as a kid….okay, as an adult, too. I don’t know if you remember Up Close with Roy Firestone on ESPN. He was absolutely wonderful at bringing years past to the present in some of the most compelling and nuanced interviews ever done. |
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Post by rizzuto on Jun 16, 2021 17:46:36 GMT -5
Okay, this St. Louis pick shall be quick:
Position: Catcher
Ted Simmons: 1564 games caught with St. Louis, Hall of Famer, 6 time all star as a Cardinal, .298/.366/.459/.824, Silver Slugger, 3 time in MVP top ten, threw out between 40 and 31 percent of runners each year from 1968 to 1980, total career fielding percentage of .987; OPS+ 127.
Yadier Molina (Backup):2035 games caught and counting; .995 fielding percentage and 40% caught stealing for his career; 9 all star games and 9 gold gloves; .281/.332/.406/.738; OPS+ 98.
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Post by pippsheadache on Jun 16, 2021 20:03:37 GMT -5
I can't really dispute it Rizz. Even though I took Molina for his defense, Simmons was vastly superior with the stick. I think he was somewhat underappreciated in his day because there were catchers like Bench and Munson and Fisk out there.
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Post by inger on Jun 16, 2021 20:31:31 GMT -5
Perspective: During Simmons career, he nabbed 34% of baserunners and that was exactly the league average during those years. Runners were not particularly discouraged from running.
Molina’s 40% is compared to a league average of 28%, and few date to test his arm. On a team with an uncertain DH, I’d consider Simmons getting Simmons switch-hitting stick a fair share of time there. Without the burden of catching full time, his offensive numbers may be elevated a bit.
Of course, Molina could also be inserted for defense, or used strategically against the best-running teams. There is no real wrong approach here…
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Post by pippsheadache on Jun 16, 2021 20:33:20 GMT -5
One final comment on Cardinal catchers. Tim McCarver would probably be third on the list. He was a solid, if unspectacular catcher who had the confidence of titans like Gibson and Carlton. Even though he was a four-decade player. he was only 38 in his final season.
Two good glove no hit catchers were Tom Pagnozzi and Mike Matheny. Daryl Porter gave them a few good years.
Walker Cooper was pretty good too and maybe gives McCarver a run for number three. Not ambitious enough to look it up. He was one of those guys I remember at the very end of his career and whose baseball card I had when I first started getting them. He just looked like such an old man. He played for a lot of teams and was a seven-time All Star.
And more importantly he had a cool name.
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